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Ben
Bee Sting Therapy, aka Venom Therapy or Honey Bee Therapy

 

Hi everyone, I hope you're all enjoying the summer weather, as I was doing until stung by a passing wasp.

Now, I'm not really a fan of alternative (or quack) MS remedies, but I am reminded of the above Bee Sting Therapy, which I haven't seen mentioned on the forum for quite some time. 

Also called Apitherapy, it involves rather a lot of bees, all of which, sadly, die.

The MS trust have some info (as, I'm sure, does Dr Google)

https://www.mstrust.org.uk/a-z/bee-venom-therapy

It sounds a bit painful, not to mention cruel to bees, but has anyone here tried it?

After my excruciatingly painful little wasp sting, which I have borne with notable fortitude, I think I'll pass.

Ben

 

hiya ben

daily dose of bee propolis is much easier wink

ellie

Ben
I have MS

Thanks ellie, I'd not heard of that one. I've just googled it and had a bit of a read. I eat rather a lot of honey which I'm sure has good food value, so the Bee is certainly our friend (but not the wasp!).

Ben

Hiya Ben,

 

Like you I would pass on Bee Venom Therapy.  On saying that I have been taking Snake Venom Therapy since 1982.

 

I don’t let a snake bite me; mine is a fraction of three venoms; the Cobra; Krait and Rattle Snake; diluted 1 part venom to 3000 parts Saline; preserved with Thimerosal.  I then inject; subcutaneously; 0.5ml every other day.

 

Am I being ripped off; I don’t think so; I pay about £50 for 5 years supply.  My syringes are the most expensive item.

 

The big question is ‘does it do any good;’ answer ‘I don’t know.’  All I can say is since that fortuitous day back in 1982 I have never looked back; lost immediately ‘The Fog’ of uselessness, other small benefits that remain as long as I take my venom and that’s the only drug I take.

 

Is it placebo?  Probably has a lot to do with it.  I have not seen a Neurologist in 30 years; just thought ‘what’s the use;’ you must remember this was pre-DMT; they had no answers.  A placebo is a very strong reaction and if it’s part of it; bring it on!

 

There’s lots of info on Pub Med about venoms; and I highly recommend http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01f51s5 Pain, Pus and Poisons.

 

George  

Found it, wrote this ages ago, Lesley's the same so  I,

Multiple Sclerosis (MS), cause and cure unknown. It is no wonder anyone in this position leans heavily on recognised medicine but tinkers with alternative therapies as they may give the sufferer something the Medical Profession cannot give them. 

I am not advocating a sufferer should try any alternative remedy, which would be silly as there are many charlatans. I want to state facts regarding a treatment that others and I use, as I was diagnosed with MS in 1973 and have been taking a treatment using the venoms of three snakes since 1982.

I had such good, beneficial results, I decided this treatment should not dwindle and die but be made available for other sufferers, especially in the UK. In 1985 I obtained the dry freeze fractionated venom of these three snakes, the Cobra, Krait and Pit Viper. A friend, who was a biochemist, diluted this substance with saline solution and a Dr Mount administered this drug we called (name taken out against rules) to thirty patients.

Not all these patients, friends, suffered from MS. One had Peripheral Neuritis, another suffered from a complaint called Sclorederma, one other suffered from Motor Neurone Disease (MND). I had no idea what the results would be on their particular complaint. I knew that this treatment alleviated tiredness, spasms, helped bladder control and stopped extremes of weather making the person feel like a wet rag. (Taken out) had no side effects that made the patient feel like a zombie? Could this substance also help these other complaints? I felt nobody should be refused; if medical reasons made it possible to try.

This was not a trial; nobody was given a fake substance as a placebo, a control, all received (Taken out). After four months the patients were categorised by Dr Mount on a scale of 1 to 4, one is excellent, two good, three average, four no results. The results, we felt, were a little disappointing with 33% of patients evaluated on one and two, 66% of patients were on 3 and 4. 

A controlled trial lasting anything from six months to three years seems to be the only way to evaluate a drug at present. I am sceptical at this procedure with this treatment as there are reactions, mild, to introducing Toxins into the body and any substance given as a placebo to mimic the (Taken out) is not really a placebo. Still, this is a point that I am sure could be overcome.

Where does this leave (Taken out), which has never had any controlled trial, has better results, does not have side effects and costs only £50 per patient; per year? In ten years time when there are many more sufferers, some brilliant researcher will find a fraction of snake venom that has beneficial results on the disease process. They will be given the Nobel Prize, a good job and pat on the back.

Do I sound bitter, yes I am? The one person who knows more about this substance than anyone is a 92-year-old man called Bill Haast. He is my mentor, has given me twenty more good useful years. No matter how much I want him to be here in another 100 years, even venom will not make him, all his vast experience will be lost.

After twenty years the people who still take this treatment do not do so because someone says’s it will do them good, a placebo. We continue to take it because we have proved if only to ourselves, it does have beneficial results. 

I have no control whatsoever and have not mentioned this treatment to anyone for over 10 years.

The snake is always been regarded as a symbol of evil. Why are two snakes coiled around a pole used as the medical symbol of the World? A question for Christians, could someone explain the writings in the Bible, Mark, Chapter16, Verse 18. I know the Bible is very ambiguous, means different thing to different people, but it does seem a strange thing for Jesus to say after rising from the grave, 'They shall take up serpents, and any deadly thing will not harm them'?

Newton’s Law of motion is ‘every action has an equal and opposite reaction’. If you think a hot cup of tea actually cools you; X-rays can cause cancer, they are used also to treat cancer; Aspirin is used to bring the temperature down but an overdose causes pyrexia. The same philosophy applies to this treatment, you are given a small amount; 1 part venom to 4000 saline, of a natural toxic substance that builds up your own immune structure.

I know your thinking – ‘What is the intention of this note’. I would like someone, with medical knowledge to instigate real trials into this substance or fraction of this substance?

Venoms are used for many complaints already, are we to wait? The answer could be found before the cause, so let us look for the answer! 

I’m sorry this is such a long message but I must tell you about the latest. We were running out of supplies and America was not going to supply us anymore. One of the other girls, I’ll call her Lesley; because that’s her name ran out at the end of November. About this time I heard of a place in Germany that could supply nearly the same. I say nearly as it’s not the venom of the Pit Viper, it’s replaced by the venom of the Rattle Snake.

To cut a very long story short Lesley came off and by Christmas, she was feeling unwell and falling asleep at the drop of a hat. Remember this is the first time she has felt like this in twenty years. She was still mobile; her husband rang me and was very upset. We eventually received supplies from Rotterdam, I told you I was cutting a long story short, and she started immediately. This would be about the middle of February. I was a little afraid to ring Les fearing the worst, was it going to work? She rang me two weeks ago and I couldn’t get a word in, she’s over the moon and fighting fit.

Her husbands so pleased he’s taking her to Moscow to see the Bolshoi Ballet as a treat.

I must apologise to you or anyone reading this story. I’m not saying I’m on it, Les is on it, tough on everyone else, I’m saying the possibilities are there but until medical organisations get off their high horse and stop pooh-poohing this treatment as voodoo medicine there will be a lot more ill people, Just prove me wrong?

Sorry, it’s so long, believe me, this is a very brief resume.

George

Before people say what a load of Cobras look at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16817641?dopt=Abstract  or http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=snake+venom+for+MS#result_actio...

 

I wrote this about 20 years ago; Bill Haast has since died; 106 years old

Lesley and I still take our venom 30 years now.

 

George 

 

Ben
I have MS

George,

You've certainly given me a lot to read there. I had heard of Snake Venom Therapy before, possibly from earlier postings of your own, but hadn't read up on the subject. You do seem to take an incredibly small dose, but I guess that's relevant to the strength of the venom. I'm glad you feel it's helping, and I like the candour of your posts. Like you, I suspect there is some degree of placebo effect with all drugs; however, belief can also lead us in the wrong direction, sometimes resulting in a pointless, and maybe expensive, dependency. (Not that I am suggesting such in your case.)

Having once been on Rebif, I know that your subcutaneous injection is a damn sight easier than forty bee stings, but still feel disinclined to try either therapy, although I admit their voodoo-like glamour surely has some appeal. (Maybe I'm a bit of a Goth at heart.)

My dislike of alternative remedies stems from a time when I spent a lot of money on Homeopathic treatments to 'aid' my recovery from infectious liver disease, I'm convinced it was no help at all. Also, just a few years ago, a European doctor was booked to give a lecture near here on the power of baking powder in treating cancer. This was dismissed by every authority, and the lecture called off at the eleventh hour. Should he have been allowed to speak? Well, that's another discussion, but the treatment in question surely sounded like a right load of advanced quackery to me; however, cynical as I am, my curiosity may well have led me to attend.

Regarding your friend Lesley, whilst what you write does sound like an impressive endorsement, there is always the question - Could her decline and subsequent improvement on re-starting the therapy have been down to belief or expectation? (I did write 'psychosomatic', but am not sure that's quite the right word). I don't have the answer to this, I'm merely playing some kind of devil's advocate.

I wish you well.

Ben